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	<title>Comments on: Fifty Years Ago Today</title>
	<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/</link>
	<description>People don't think it be like it is, but it do.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 07:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Tank</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-964</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-964</guid>
					<description>Assume the position.

And STOP FIDGETING!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assume the position.</p>
<p>And STOP FIDGETING!
</p>
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		<title>by: Cliffy</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-954</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 11:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-954</guid>
					<description>I've let down myself... I've let down my pledge class... I've let down my brothers.  Okay?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve let down myself&#8230; I&#8217;ve let down my pledge class&#8230; I&#8217;ve let down my brothers.  Okay?
</p>
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		<title>by: Tank</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-949</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-949</guid>
					<description>Wait... you watched "Oprah" ??!?!?!?!

That's the most troubling thing I've heard all week, and I work in the markets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait&#8230; you watched &#8220;Oprah&#8221; ??!?!?!?!</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the most troubling thing I&#8217;ve heard all week, and I work in the markets.
</p>
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		<title>by: Cliffy</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-946</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-946</guid>
					<description>We go back and forth on this all the time, and I understand - and concede - your point:  Everybody has issues to deal with, and some folks have greater issues than others.

On a related note, courtesy of MLK Day, Oprah had a series of stories centered around individual incidents involving racism in this country.  (Yes, I watched Oprah with my wife Monday evening... so shoot me.)  One story was about a woman down south (Mississippi, I believe... these things seemed to often happen in Mississippi), who was the mother of ten and happened to be walking home late from work one evening (in the early 60s, IIRC).  Three or four white kids decided a black person needed to die that night cuz... well, they had the audacity to be black - so they executed a textbook driveby shooting.  Additionally, the woman didn't die from the initial gunshot - instead, she bled out cuz she couldn't go to the (closer) all-white hospitals so by the time she was accepted at a hospital that would treat blacks, it was too late.  Her husband worked two jobs to try to support the ten kids (the youngest an infant).  The state decided he was an unfit parent cuz he was never around, so the ten kids went into foster care - and naturally, were split up.  The "law" in the town didn't even pursue the case.  A (white) detective had a problem with that, and he and his partner investigated on their own.  They developed a rock solid case including identifying three individuals, their specific roles in the killing, and they had the murder weapon... and no charges were brought.  The detective pursued it and got fired, and castigated socially, for his efforts.  About five years ago, the youngest of the ten children and this detective got together and since then, they've tried to work to (finally) bring justice in the case.

Now *that* is a burden... for the father, the ten children, the innocent woman who was murdered and even for the white detective who struggled for years with what had happened - that night, and in the aftermath.  That is clearly far, far worse than a HoF basketball player coming home to poop on his bedsheets... but I know I still wouldn't want to come home to poop on *my* bedsheets, just cuz my ancestors happen to come from near the equator.

Bad stuff happens to good people all the time, and many times its senseless - but regardless of where it falls on the spectrum, can we just agree that its downright baffling that so many people have done the (bad) things they've done cuz "the [minority] had it comin'"?  They say ignorance is bliss... but sometimes ignorance can be dangerous too.  And how else to explain racism other than unadulterated ignorance?  Sure, sure.... some otherwise intelligent people are quite capable of racism (and those are the really dangerous ignorants, obviously) - but that only baffles me all the more, it doesn't elminate the simple fact that its all rooted in abject ignorance.  I'm not the brighest bulb in the on the Christmas tree, but I just can't come up with any other explanation.

Okay, I'm done now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We go back and forth on this all the time, and I understand - and concede - your point:  Everybody has issues to deal with, and some folks have greater issues than others.</p>
<p>On a related note, courtesy of MLK Day, Oprah had a series of stories centered around individual incidents involving racism in this country.  (Yes, I watched Oprah with my wife Monday evening&#8230; so shoot me.)  One story was about a woman down south (Mississippi, I believe&#8230; these things seemed to often happen in Mississippi), who was the mother of ten and happened to be walking home late from work one evening (in the early 60s, IIRC).  Three or four white kids decided a black person needed to die that night cuz&#8230; well, they had the audacity to be black - so they executed a textbook driveby shooting.  Additionally, the woman didn&#8217;t die from the initial gunshot - instead, she bled out cuz she couldn&#8217;t go to the (closer) all-white hospitals so by the time she was accepted at a hospital that would treat blacks, it was too late.  Her husband worked two jobs to try to support the ten kids (the youngest an infant).  The state decided he was an unfit parent cuz he was never around, so the ten kids went into foster care - and naturally, were split up.  The &#8220;law&#8221; in the town didn&#8217;t even pursue the case.  A (white) detective had a problem with that, and he and his partner investigated on their own.  They developed a rock solid case including identifying three individuals, their specific roles in the killing, and they had the murder weapon&#8230; and no charges were brought.  The detective pursued it and got fired, and castigated socially, for his efforts.  About five years ago, the youngest of the ten children and this detective got together and since then, they&#8217;ve tried to work to (finally) bring justice in the case.</p>
<p>Now *that* is a burden&#8230; for the father, the ten children, the innocent woman who was murdered and even for the white detective who struggled for years with what had happened - that night, and in the aftermath.  That is clearly far, far worse than a HoF basketball player coming home to poop on his bedsheets&#8230; but I know I still wouldn&#8217;t want to come home to poop on *my* bedsheets, just cuz my ancestors happen to come from near the equator.</p>
<p>Bad stuff happens to good people all the time, and many times its senseless - but regardless of where it falls on the spectrum, can we just agree that its downright baffling that so many people have done the (bad) things they&#8217;ve done cuz &#8220;the [minority] had it comin&#8217;&#8221;?  They say ignorance is bliss&#8230; but sometimes ignorance can be dangerous too.  And how else to explain racism other than unadulterated ignorance?  Sure, sure&#8230;. some otherwise intelligent people are quite capable of racism (and those are the really dangerous ignorants, obviously) - but that only baffles me all the more, it doesn&#8217;t elminate the simple fact that its all rooted in abject ignorance.  I&#8217;m not the brighest bulb in the on the Christmas tree, but I just can&#8217;t come up with any other explanation.</p>
<p>Okay, I&#8217;m done now.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tank</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-943</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-943</guid>
					<description>Let me first just say... ewww.

I'm not making excuses for terrible behavior, or saying its OK, or that anyone should have to face the hypothetical trade off you describe. I am saying life can be difficult for everyone, and someone who enjoys a career getting paid to play a fun game is indeed very lucky compared to most reference groups one can imagine. Having neighbors who aren't toilet trained has got to be frustrating, but what else should one expect when one lives among Red Sox fans? I mean, a poop in the bed constitutes robust social discourse for that group. But I digress... 

More seriously, I just have a problem with singling out a particular burden as somehow a greater injustice than others simply because it is visible. Everyone has their crosses to bear in life, and a great many aren't fair. Bill Russell grew up at a time when blacks were legally discriminated against, but when most blacks were raised in two-parent households. Is that inherently less fair, or a greater impediment to success, than growing up with equal legal rights in a one-parent family? Would a Bill Russell trade places with an Allen Iverson? How do racist taunting (and feces) - in short, the disapproval of people whose approval is worthless - stack up against, say, a sick child? 

In conclusion, let me just say... ewww.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me first just say&#8230; ewww.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not making excuses for terrible behavior, or saying its OK, or that anyone should have to face the hypothetical trade off you describe. I am saying life can be difficult for everyone, and someone who enjoys a career getting paid to play a fun game is indeed very lucky compared to most reference groups one can imagine. Having neighbors who aren&#8217;t toilet trained has got to be frustrating, but what else should one expect when one lives among Red Sox fans? I mean, a poop in the bed constitutes robust social discourse for that group. But I digress&#8230; </p>
<p>More seriously, I just have a problem with singling out a particular burden as somehow a greater injustice than others simply because it is visible. Everyone has their crosses to bear in life, and a great many aren&#8217;t fair. Bill Russell grew up at a time when blacks were legally discriminated against, but when most blacks were raised in two-parent households. Is that inherently less fair, or a greater impediment to success, than growing up with equal legal rights in a one-parent family? Would a Bill Russell trade places with an Allen Iverson? How do racist taunting (and feces) - in short, the disapproval of people whose approval is worthless - stack up against, say, a sick child? </p>
<p>In conclusion, let me just say&#8230; ewww.
</p>
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		<title>by: Cliffy</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-941</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-941</guid>
					<description>Agreed - but Russell did face more than nasty names:

"Russell tried to move from his home in the Boston suburb of Reading to a new home across town in 1968. His would-be neighbors filed a petition trying to block the move, and when that failed, other neighbors banded together to try to purchase the home that Russell wanted to buy.[45] Vandals broke into Russell's home and defecated on his bed."

Now, murder is worse... but do you really consider Bill Russell to be "lucky" wrt the wrongs he endured?

We've had this discussion before, and I understand your point:  There are relative evils.  But I don't think its accurate to make light of what Russell, et al, faced simply cuz it could've been worse.

And considering the racism Russell, et al, faced since childhood... well, I wonder how many would trade their athletic ability for the privilege of instead being treated like human beings since childhood.  Perhaps some wouldn't, but I wonder if some would indeed forego athletic gifts for the opportunity to avoid all the senseless vitriol (among other things).

Bill Russell is among the greatest players in NBA history, so perhaps he'd tell you he wouldn't trade it in (not that he should have to, of course, we're speaking hypothetically) - but what about Satch Sanders, KC Jones, Sam Jones, or "lesser" black athletes of the 50s and 60s?  Where's the line?  How much *should* a public figure have to put up with in the name of racism?

We're not talking about public figures who are inconvenienced at restaurants by autograph-seekers while they try to enjoy a quiet meal... *that* comes with the territory.  I'm not sure that coming home to your neighbor's shit on your bed falls into that category.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed - but Russell did face more than nasty names:</p>
<p>&#8220;Russell tried to move from his home in the Boston suburb of Reading to a new home across town in 1968. His would-be neighbors filed a petition trying to block the move, and when that failed, other neighbors banded together to try to purchase the home that Russell wanted to buy.[45] Vandals broke into Russell&#8217;s home and defecated on his bed.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now, murder is worse&#8230; but do you really consider Bill Russell to be &#8220;lucky&#8221; wrt the wrongs he endured?</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve had this discussion before, and I understand your point:  There are relative evils.  But I don&#8217;t think its accurate to make light of what Russell, et al, faced simply cuz it could&#8217;ve been worse.</p>
<p>And considering the racism Russell, et al, faced since childhood&#8230; well, I wonder how many would trade their athletic ability for the privilege of instead being treated like human beings since childhood.  Perhaps some wouldn&#8217;t, but I wonder if some would indeed forego athletic gifts for the opportunity to avoid all the senseless vitriol (among other things).</p>
<p>Bill Russell is among the greatest players in NBA history, so perhaps he&#8217;d tell you he wouldn&#8217;t trade it in (not that he should have to, of course, we&#8217;re speaking hypothetically) - but what about Satch Sanders, KC Jones, Sam Jones, or &#8220;lesser&#8221; black athletes of the 50s and 60s?  Where&#8217;s the line?  How much *should* a public figure have to put up with in the name of racism?</p>
<p>We&#8217;re not talking about public figures who are inconvenienced at restaurants by autograph-seekers while they try to enjoy a quiet meal&#8230; *that* comes with the territory.  I&#8217;m not sure that coming home to your neighbor&#8217;s shit on your bed falls into that category.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tank</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-935</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-935</guid>
					<description>In fairness to Boston much (if not most, or all) of the country had racial issues in the 60s and early 70s. Boston's were actually quite tame compared to, say, Los Angeles, or Detroit, or Newark. And given the price paid by people on the front lines of the civil rights issue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_civil_rights_worker_murders), celebrities who got called nasty names should probably count themselves lucky. Not saying its right, but once one accepts that man has been cast out of Paradise, then it seems clear there are much worse fates in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In fairness to Boston much (if not most, or all) of the country had racial issues in the 60s and early 70s. Boston&#8217;s were actually quite tame compared to, say, Los Angeles, or Detroit, or Newark. And given the price paid by people on the front lines of the civil rights issue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_civil_rights_worker_murders), celebrities who got called nasty names should probably count themselves lucky. Not saying its right, but once one accepts that man has been cast out of Paradise, then it seems clear there are much worse fates in the world.
</p>
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		<title>by: Cliffy</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-934</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/fifty-years-ago-today/#comment-934</guid>
					<description>Sadly, people say Tom Yawkey was among the biggest racists going.  I've never met the man, so I can't say - and during his ownership, he did (eventually) integrate and had quite a few good black players... Reggie Smith, George Scott, Jim Rice, Luis Tiant, just to name a few.  I don't recall any comments from those guys regarding how they were treated by Yawkey - though I do recall a number of people saying a lot of good things about the man.  But IIRC, he was really the main obstacle to the Red Sox integrating sooner.

Obviously it wasn't an issue for the Bruins owner - being the first in the NHL.  As for the Celtics, Red Auerbach cared about winning - and nothing else.  He would've put a Martian on his team if the Martian could play and help his team win.  Indeed, IIRC, the Celtics were the first NBA team to field a starting five of black players... ironic given that they were called racists for having too many whites on the team in the 80s (cuz after all, who would want guys like Bird, McHale, Walton and Ainge getting meaningful minutes for your team? - and the fact that Eric Fernsten and Greg Kite were the 12th men - aka "Mr. Five Fouls to Give" - was apparently of concern for folks as well).

And I don't think the Patriots had any issues bringing on minorities from their inception in 1960 - indeed one of their biggest stars was Ron Burton, a black RB (and fwiw, by all accounts, not only a great player but a great human being... who unfortunately passed in the last couple of years, far too soon... but I digress....)

Boston as a city seemed to have its racial issues - especially in the 60s and early 70s - and they may or may not have been worse than most other metropolitan areas of the time.  For example, there are far too many anecdotes about the issues Bill Russell faced (and although one would be "far too many", it was a lot more than one).  I have no idea if that would've been the case had he played for the Knicks or (Philadelphia) Warriors, et al - but the fact is that he *did* have those issues in Boston.  Disturbing.  And apparently he kept much of it to himself, as many years later Bob Cousy was brought to tears in explaining that he wished he'd known what his teammate and good friend was going through so he could've tried to help in some way.

Anyhow... my point is that although Boston had (and still has?) a reputation as a racist town, relatively speaking, the Red Sox were the only team in the four major sports to have that translate to their organization wrt integrating the team.  The other three were either on par, or well ahead of the curve... as with Willie O'Ree and the Bruins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, people say Tom Yawkey was among the biggest racists going.  I&#8217;ve never met the man, so I can&#8217;t say - and during his ownership, he did (eventually) integrate and had quite a few good black players&#8230; Reggie Smith, George Scott, Jim Rice, Luis Tiant, just to name a few.  I don&#8217;t recall any comments from those guys regarding how they were treated by Yawkey - though I do recall a number of people saying a lot of good things about the man.  But IIRC, he was really the main obstacle to the Red Sox integrating sooner.</p>
<p>Obviously it wasn&#8217;t an issue for the Bruins owner - being the first in the NHL.  As for the Celtics, Red Auerbach cared about winning - and nothing else.  He would&#8217;ve put a Martian on his team if the Martian could play and help his team win.  Indeed, IIRC, the Celtics were the first NBA team to field a starting five of black players&#8230; ironic given that they were called racists for having too many whites on the team in the 80s (cuz after all, who would want guys like Bird, McHale, Walton and Ainge getting meaningful minutes for your team? - and the fact that Eric Fernsten and Greg Kite were the 12th men - aka &#8220;Mr. Five Fouls to Give&#8221; - was apparently of concern for folks as well).</p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t think the Patriots had any issues bringing on minorities from their inception in 1960 - indeed one of their biggest stars was Ron Burton, a black RB (and fwiw, by all accounts, not only a great player but a great human being&#8230; who unfortunately passed in the last couple of years, far too soon&#8230; but I digress&#8230;.)</p>
<p>Boston as a city seemed to have its racial issues - especially in the 60s and early 70s - and they may or may not have been worse than most other metropolitan areas of the time.  For example, there are far too many anecdotes about the issues Bill Russell faced (and although one would be &#8220;far too many&#8221;, it was a lot more than one).  I have no idea if that would&#8217;ve been the case had he played for the Knicks or (Philadelphia) Warriors, et al - but the fact is that he *did* have those issues in Boston.  Disturbing.  And apparently he kept much of it to himself, as many years later Bob Cousy was brought to tears in explaining that he wished he&#8217;d known what his teammate and good friend was going through so he could&#8217;ve tried to help in some way.</p>
<p>Anyhow&#8230; my point is that although Boston had (and still has?) a reputation as a racist town, relatively speaking, the Red Sox were the only team in the four major sports to have that translate to their organization wrt integrating the team.  The other three were either on par, or well ahead of the curve&#8230; as with Willie O&#8217;Ree and the Bruins.
</p>
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