GoG nominees - Galvin, Irvin, Keefe, Maranville, Nichols
I’d like to address the following five together - Galvin, Irvin, Keefe, Maranville, Nichols - as Tank requested further evidence based on the understandable lack of familiarity due to the time frames in which each of these guys played:
James Francis “Pud” Galvin - before I begin, just much better nicknames 100 years ago, don’t ya think? But I’m not putting him up for his nickname, I’m putting him up for his career accomplishments: played 1875, 1879-92, 705 G, 689 GS, 646 CG, 57 shutouts, 364-310 W/L, 6003.3 IP, 2.86 ERA, 1.191 WHIP. Yes - he came from a far different era than today, but he’s #5 all-time in wins. That’s enough for me. Additionally, he led the league in strikeouts four times, and in BB/9IP three times - true the latter is not a common stat, but I think the combination shows a power pitcher with control… and indeed he led the league twice in K/BB ratio. Second all-time in complete games (led the league once), and 11th all-time in shutouts (led the league twice).
Monte Irvin - true, only an 8-yr MLB career… but that was due to the color of his skin, not the depth of his talent. To save space and time, I’ll simply refer you to his Wikipedia entry to convey anecdotaly (pretty much all that’s available for Negro Leaguers) that he is definitely deserving: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Irvin
Tim Keefe - like Galvin, from the late 19th century (1880-93): 600 G, 594 GS, 554 CG, 39 shutouts, 342-225 W/L (.603 win %), 5047.7 IP, 2.62 ERA, 1.121 WHIP, 2562 K. Tenth all-time in career wins. Won the pitching Triple Crown in 1888 - but overall, led the league in wins twice, in ERA three times, and in strikeouts twice. Third all-time in complete games. Tenth all-time in K/BB ratio. Clearly a great pitcher in his era and all-time, and thus deserving of induction.
Walter “Rabbit” Maranville - he and I (and basketball) share the same birthplace, so he’s got that going for him… which is nice. But beyond that, and perhaps more meaningful for the rest of you: played mostly SS (and some 2B) from 1912-35, 2605 hits, 28 HR, 884 RBI, 1255 RS, 291 SB, 258/318/340–82 OPS+. He was middle infielder, and played in the early 20th century, so we wouldn’t expect to see big power numbers. He played in two WS (winning one) - averaging 308/379/346. But an indication of his performance level is this: Top-10 MVP five times, top-3 MVP twice. That was certainly in part due to his fielding. Now, this was before Gold Gloves - but as a middle infielder, his career fielding % is .956 (vs. .945 lg avg), and his career range factor is 5.76 (vs. 5.32 lg avg). He finished his career with a positional record 5,139 putouts. When he retired, his 23 NL seasons played was a record - held until broken by Pete Rose in 1986. I agree that mere longevity shouldn’t be sole consideration for induction (indeed, I won’t be putting Julio Franco in) - but he played a long time as a full-time player, one who was a top middle infielder in his era. He’s the most “questionable” of these five here in my view, but I still submit he’s a GoGer.
Charles “Kid” Nichols - (1890-1906), 620 G, 561 GS, 531 CG, 48 shutouts, 361-208 W/L (.634 win %), 5056.3 IP, 2.95 ERA, 140 ERA+, 1.222 WHIP, 1868 K. He is 7th all-time in wins, while posting the 42nd best win % ever - and 4th all-time in complete games. His 140 ERA+ is 15th best all-time. He led the league in wins three years in a row, led the league in shutouts three times, and led the league in K/BB four times. This is about as much of a slam dunk as you can get for somebody that most current baseball fans have probably never heard of.
Presented for your consideration this 16th day of January, 2008 - faithfully submitted, Douglas C. Niedermeyer, Sgt-at-Arms.
January 16th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
What was Galvin doing between 1875-1879? Fighting the Sioux? Agitating for the free coinage of silver? Serving in the Hayes Administration? I’m not sure his gaudy win total represents much more than sheer longevity in that era, but I can go along with Galvin.
My reservation about Irvin is that we’re really speculating about what he did in the Negro Leagues, and what he might have done in the majors had it not been for World War II and segregation. But the anecdotal evidence does suggest he was among the best players in the Negro Leagues during his career. I say he’s in.
Keefe seems sound enough, he gets my vote. Ditto for Nichols.
I’m really on the fence about Maranville. The MVP data strikes me as that of a very good player, not necessarily an all-time great - more Dave Parker than Mike Schmidt, if you will. I gotta think about him some more.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Fair enough - certainly curious for the thoughts of others on these five as well. As I suggested in my nomination, I’d understand reluctance with Maranville. I do believe he’s deserving - but given that our unofficial mandate is to be more selective rather than less selective, I’d understand an objection to his induction.
What’s difficult to ascertain - for me, and anyone else - is the level of his fielding skill. To play middle infield for 23 years seems to indicate to me that he was really good - especially if we ass-ume a deteriotation of skills in the later years, the fact that he continued to play middle infield would seem to indicate an even higher level of play during his prime. We don’t have Gold Gloves to help us in this matter (as we do with, say, Ozzie Smith) and he played (his meaningful years) before the All-Star Game was introduced - but anecdotaly, a non-power-hitting middle infielder who finishes so high in the MVP voting would seem to tell me he brough a lot to the table… indeed a great in his era. Perhaps to counter my own argument, I look at two-time MVP Dale Murphy and conclude he’s not getting into the GoG… close, but I can’t pull the trigger - course Murphy was an OF, and middle infield his a tougher defensive position. But still, perhaps I’m waying a few MVP-type seasons too highly?
I looked at Ozzie Smith’s defensive numbers for comparison - as Ozzie was a light-hitting guy who’s GoG credentials are clearly based largely on his defense - and Ozzie’s career fielding % is .978 vs .966 lg avg, and his career range factor is 5.03 vs. 4.10 lg avg. Clearly Maranville is not in Ozzie’s league (which we could likely guess, but good to confirm). Bill Mazeroski was another historic defensive whiz in the middle infield (albeit at 2B) - and his career fielding % is .983 vs .976 lg avg, and his career range factor is 5.57 vs. 4.71 lg avg.
Offensively, Maranville had an 82 OPS+ - while Ozzie had an 87 OPS+, and Mazeroski had an 84 OPS+ (though we all know that Mazeroski made Cooperstown in large part due to his historic WS Game 7 HR, right?). Hmmm… I may be talking myself out of Maranville. I’m going to do a little more digging to see if I’m missing something - but again, I’d welcome input from others besides Tank and I.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Didn’t Kid Nichols help fix the 1919 world series
January 17th, 2008 at 10:50 am
As a player? No - his career ended 13 years earlier. Or do you mean in some non-playing fashion? I don’t see a “Nichols” on the Black Sox roster - at least according to BR.com. I do see that their manager was Kid Gleason… could that be what you’re thinking of?