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	<title>Comments on: GoG nominees - Galvin, Irvin, Keefe, Maranville, Nichols</title>
	<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/gog-nominees-galvin-irvin-keefe-maranville-nichols/</link>
	<description>People don't think it be like it is, but it do.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 03:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Cliffy</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/gog-nominees-galvin-irvin-keefe-maranville-nichols/#comment-921</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/gog-nominees-galvin-irvin-keefe-maranville-nichols/#comment-921</guid>
					<description>As a player?  No - his career ended 13 years earlier.  Or do you mean in some non-playing fashion?  I don't see a "Nichols" on the Black Sox roster - at least according to BR.com.  I do see that their manager was Kid Gleason... could that be what you're thinking of?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a player?  No - his career ended 13 years earlier.  Or do you mean in some non-playing fashion?  I don&#8217;t see a &#8220;Nichols&#8221; on the Black Sox roster - at least according to BR.com.  I do see that their manager was Kid Gleason&#8230; could that be what you&#8217;re thinking of?
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		<title>by: shtiny</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/gog-nominees-galvin-irvin-keefe-maranville-nichols/#comment-917</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/gog-nominees-galvin-irvin-keefe-maranville-nichols/#comment-917</guid>
					<description>Didn't Kid Nichols help fix the 1919 world series</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t Kid Nichols help fix the 1919 world series
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		<title>by: Cliffy</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/gog-nominees-galvin-irvin-keefe-maranville-nichols/#comment-913</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/gog-nominees-galvin-irvin-keefe-maranville-nichols/#comment-913</guid>
					<description>Fair enough - certainly curious for the thoughts of others on these five as well.  As I suggested in my nomination, I'd understand reluctance with Maranville.  I do believe he's deserving - but given that our unofficial mandate is to be more selective rather than less selective, I'd understand an objection to his induction.

What's difficult to ascertain - for me, and anyone else - is the level of his fielding skill.  To play middle infield for 23 years seems to indicate to me that he was really good - especially if we ass-ume a deteriotation of skills in the later years, the fact that he continued to play middle infield would seem to indicate an even higher level of play during his prime.  We don't have Gold Gloves to help us in this matter (as we do with, say, Ozzie Smith) and he played (his meaningful years) before the All-Star Game was introduced - but anecdotaly, a non-power-hitting middle infielder who finishes so high in the MVP voting would seem to tell me he brough a lot to the table... indeed a great in his era.  Perhaps to counter my own argument, I look at two-time MVP Dale Murphy and conclude he's not getting into the GoG... close, but I can't pull the trigger - course Murphy was an OF, and middle infield his a tougher defensive position.  But still, perhaps I'm waying a few MVP-type seasons too highly?

I looked at Ozzie Smith's defensive numbers for comparison - as Ozzie was a light-hitting guy who's GoG credentials are clearly based largely on his defense - and Ozzie's career fielding % is .978 vs .966 lg avg, and his career range factor is 5.03 vs. 4.10 lg avg.  Clearly Maranville is not in Ozzie's league (which we could likely guess, but good to confirm).  Bill Mazeroski was another historic defensive whiz in the middle infield (albeit at 2B) - and his career fielding % is .983 vs .976 lg avg, and his career range factor is 5.57 vs. 4.71 lg avg. 

Offensively, Maranville had an 82 OPS+ - while Ozzie had an 87 OPS+, and Mazeroski had an 84 OPS+ (though we all know that Mazeroski made Cooperstown in large part due to his historic WS Game 7 HR, right?).  Hmmm... I may be talking myself out of Maranville.  I'm going to do a little more digging to see if I'm missing something - but again, I'd welcome input from others besides Tank and I.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough - certainly curious for the thoughts of others on these five as well.  As I suggested in my nomination, I&#8217;d understand reluctance with Maranville.  I do believe he&#8217;s deserving - but given that our unofficial mandate is to be more selective rather than less selective, I&#8217;d understand an objection to his induction.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s difficult to ascertain - for me, and anyone else - is the level of his fielding skill.  To play middle infield for 23 years seems to indicate to me that he was really good - especially if we ass-ume a deteriotation of skills in the later years, the fact that he continued to play middle infield would seem to indicate an even higher level of play during his prime.  We don&#8217;t have Gold Gloves to help us in this matter (as we do with, say, Ozzie Smith) and he played (his meaningful years) before the All-Star Game was introduced - but anecdotaly, a non-power-hitting middle infielder who finishes so high in the MVP voting would seem to tell me he brough a lot to the table&#8230; indeed a great in his era.  Perhaps to counter my own argument, I look at two-time MVP Dale Murphy and conclude he&#8217;s not getting into the GoG&#8230; close, but I can&#8217;t pull the trigger - course Murphy was an OF, and middle infield his a tougher defensive position.  But still, perhaps I&#8217;m waying a few MVP-type seasons too highly?</p>
<p>I looked at Ozzie Smith&#8217;s defensive numbers for comparison - as Ozzie was a light-hitting guy who&#8217;s GoG credentials are clearly based largely on his defense - and Ozzie&#8217;s career fielding % is .978 vs .966 lg avg, and his career range factor is 5.03 vs. 4.10 lg avg.  Clearly Maranville is not in Ozzie&#8217;s league (which we could likely guess, but good to confirm).  Bill Mazeroski was another historic defensive whiz in the middle infield (albeit at 2B) - and his career fielding % is .983 vs .976 lg avg, and his career range factor is 5.57 vs. 4.71 lg avg. </p>
<p>Offensively, Maranville had an 82 OPS+ - while Ozzie had an 87 OPS+, and Mazeroski had an 84 OPS+ (though we all know that Mazeroski made Cooperstown in large part due to his historic WS Game 7 HR, right?).  Hmmm&#8230; I may be talking myself out of Maranville.  I&#8217;m going to do a little more digging to see if I&#8217;m missing something - but again, I&#8217;d welcome input from others besides Tank and I.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tank</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/gog-nominees-galvin-irvin-keefe-maranville-nichols/#comment-910</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/gog-nominees-galvin-irvin-keefe-maranville-nichols/#comment-910</guid>
					<description>What was Galvin doing between 1875-1879? Fighting the Sioux? Agitating for the free coinage of silver? Serving in the Hayes Administration? I'm not sure his gaudy win total represents much more than sheer longevity in that era, but I can go along with Galvin.

My reservation about Irvin is that we're really speculating about what he did in the Negro Leagues, and what he might have done in the majors had it not been for World War II and segregation. But the anecdotal evidence does suggest he was among the best players in the Negro Leagues during his career. I say he's in.

Keefe seems sound enough, he gets my vote. Ditto for Nichols.

I'm really on the fence about Maranville. The MVP data strikes me as that of a very good player, not necessarily an all-time great - more Dave Parker than Mike Schmidt, if you will. I gotta think about him some more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What was Galvin doing between 1875-1879? Fighting the Sioux? Agitating for the free coinage of silver? Serving in the Hayes Administration? I&#8217;m not sure his gaudy win total represents much more than sheer longevity in that era, but I can go along with Galvin.</p>
<p>My reservation about Irvin is that we&#8217;re really speculating about what he did in the Negro Leagues, and what he might have done in the majors had it not been for World War II and segregation. But the anecdotal evidence does suggest he was among the best players in the Negro Leagues during his career. I say he&#8217;s in.</p>
<p>Keefe seems sound enough, he gets my vote. Ditto for Nichols.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m really on the fence about Maranville. The MVP data strikes me as that of a very good player, not necessarily an all-time great - more Dave Parker than Mike Schmidt, if you will. I gotta think about him some more.
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