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	<title>Comments on: Goodell penalizes Belicheck, Pats</title>
	<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/goodell-penalizes-belicheck-pats/</link>
	<description>People don't think it be like it is, but it do.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Cliffy</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/goodell-penalizes-belicheck-pats/#comment-712</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/goodell-penalizes-belicheck-pats/#comment-712</guid>
					<description>Bob Kraft is very proud of the Patriots (previous) status as "the class organization of the NFL".  Publicly, he's supported Belicheck... in the sense that publicly, he hasn't hammered him.  I don't recall any statement by Kraft saying he condones or even knew about what Belicheck was doing.  I've never met Bob Kraft, and certainly don't him personally, but my sense is that while he's a very successful businessman (which may indicate he'll do whatever it takes to be successful, if you'd like)... he is actually a man of principle.

I submit that the three Super Bowls have kept Kraft from coming down too hard on Belicheck behind the scenes i.e. if it was Pete Carroll, he would've faced *additional* consequences from Kraft and the Pats.  However, I'd say its more likely that Kraft took Belicheck aside behind the scenes and plainly confirmed, "If you do that again, we're going to have a problem".... as opposed to, "I'll give you a $500k bonus, off the books, to cover your losses."

The public perception of Bob Kraft's organization is very important to him... all that "Patriot Way" nonsense.  Belicheck's arrogant refusal to follow a very clear rule (however stupid the rule actually is) has cost Kraft dearly in the public perception department, and I contend, he's not happy about it.  No... Belicheck's paying the $500k.

One note:  Jim Fassell was on ESPN2 yesterday and brought up an interesting point.  The fine will go to charity, which makes it tax-deductible, so Belicheck will get a tax break on it.  Now Fassell's math was that in Belicheck's tax bracket that would equate to a 50% tax bracket and a $250k tax writeoff.... i.e. it'll only cost him $250k when all's said and done.  

I don't know about his math, as I'm no tax expert - and I'm well aware that the money goes to charity, but... doesn't it go to the NFL *first*, and then *they* donate it to charity?  It seems a bit silly that an offender would get a "tax break" from his NFL fine, doesn't it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob Kraft is very proud of the Patriots (previous) status as &#8220;the class organization of the NFL&#8221;.  Publicly, he&#8217;s supported Belicheck&#8230; in the sense that publicly, he hasn&#8217;t hammered him.  I don&#8217;t recall any statement by Kraft saying he condones or even knew about what Belicheck was doing.  I&#8217;ve never met Bob Kraft, and certainly don&#8217;t him personally, but my sense is that while he&#8217;s a very successful businessman (which may indicate he&#8217;ll do whatever it takes to be successful, if you&#8217;d like)&#8230; he is actually a man of principle.</p>
<p>I submit that the three Super Bowls have kept Kraft from coming down too hard on Belicheck behind the scenes i.e. if it was Pete Carroll, he would&#8217;ve faced *additional* consequences from Kraft and the Pats.  However, I&#8217;d say its more likely that Kraft took Belicheck aside behind the scenes and plainly confirmed, &#8220;If you do that again, we&#8217;re going to have a problem&#8221;&#8230;. as opposed to, &#8220;I&#8217;ll give you a $500k bonus, off the books, to cover your losses.&#8221;</p>
<p>The public perception of Bob Kraft&#8217;s organization is very important to him&#8230; all that &#8220;Patriot Way&#8221; nonsense.  Belicheck&#8217;s arrogant refusal to follow a very clear rule (however stupid the rule actually is) has cost Kraft dearly in the public perception department, and I contend, he&#8217;s not happy about it.  No&#8230; Belicheck&#8217;s paying the $500k.</p>
<p>One note:  Jim Fassell was on ESPN2 yesterday and brought up an interesting point.  The fine will go to charity, which makes it tax-deductible, so Belicheck will get a tax break on it.  Now Fassell&#8217;s math was that in Belicheck&#8217;s tax bracket that would equate to a 50% tax bracket and a $250k tax writeoff&#8230;. i.e. it&#8217;ll only cost him $250k when all&#8217;s said and done.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about his math, as I&#8217;m no tax expert - and I&#8217;m well aware that the money goes to charity, but&#8230; doesn&#8217;t it go to the NFL *first*, and then *they* donate it to charity?  It seems a bit silly that an offender would get a &#8220;tax break&#8221; from his NFL fine, doesn&#8217;t it?
</p>
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		<title>by: Jakes</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/goodell-penalizes-belicheck-pats/#comment-709</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 02:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/goodell-penalizes-belicheck-pats/#comment-709</guid>
					<description>I believe the ruling from Goodell stipulates that BB must pay his own fine.

And as for the amount, I'm with you Cliffy, that fine is huge.  One can do some simple math and conclue that it is 12.5% of his salary (if he indeed makes the reported $4m per).  Now, ask anyone, no matter how much they make, how they feel about forking over an eighth of their gross in after tax dollars.  As they say, "ouch, babe."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the ruling from Goodell stipulates that BB must pay his own fine.</p>
<p>And as for the amount, I&#8217;m with you Cliffy, that fine is huge.  One can do some simple math and conclue that it is 12.5% of his salary (if he indeed makes the reported $4m per).  Now, ask anyone, no matter how much they make, how they feel about forking over an eighth of their gross in after tax dollars.  As they say, &#8220;ouch, babe.&#8221;
</p>
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		<title>by: Gonzo</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/goodell-penalizes-belicheck-pats/#comment-707</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:51:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/goodell-penalizes-belicheck-pats/#comment-707</guid>
					<description>Why would Kraft pay it for him?

I'll give you three reasons, and they all sit in the trophy case in Gillet Stadium, and quite possibly a 4th to add to the collection come February.

I would happily pounder that, but of course there is no way to prove it,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would Kraft pay it for him?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll give you three reasons, and they all sit in the trophy case in Gillet Stadium, and quite possibly a 4th to add to the collection come February.</p>
<p>I would happily pounder that, but of course there is no way to prove it,
</p>
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		<title>by: Cliffy</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/goodell-penalizes-belicheck-pats/#comment-706</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2007 20:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/goodell-penalizes-belicheck-pats/#comment-706</guid>
					<description>Why would Kraft pay it for him?  I definitely expect Belicheck to pay his own fine.  Kraft learned his lesson in the mid-90s when he didn't give Parcells the autonomy he craved (and arguably deserved).  From that Kraft is on record as noting that in his other businesses, he hires managers to run things and hold them accountable for the results.  It's entirely possible that Kraft knew about the "extra" sideline camera - but I personally doubt it.

Whether he did or not, he's given Belicheck the autonomy he craved (and deserves) to run *this* Kraft business.  He's rewarded him for good results - and he'll hold him accountable for "bad"... i.e. a fine for breaking an NFL rule.

If this was Jerry Jones and Chan Gailey... or more to the point, Bob Kraft and Pete Carroll, then I may concede your point.  But Belicheck runs the Patriot business and is held responsible for the results.  No way of knowing for sure, I suppose - but I would Pounder that it comes out of his pocket, if there were any way of ascertaining that for certain (i.e. ensuring that Kraft doesn't "take care of it" off the radar, down the road, as you surmise).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would Kraft pay it for him?  I definitely expect Belicheck to pay his own fine.  Kraft learned his lesson in the mid-90s when he didn&#8217;t give Parcells the autonomy he craved (and arguably deserved).  From that Kraft is on record as noting that in his other businesses, he hires managers to run things and hold them accountable for the results.  It&#8217;s entirely possible that Kraft knew about the &#8220;extra&#8221; sideline camera - but I personally doubt it.</p>
<p>Whether he did or not, he&#8217;s given Belicheck the autonomy he craved (and deserves) to run *this* Kraft business.  He&#8217;s rewarded him for good results - and he&#8217;ll hold him accountable for &#8220;bad&#8221;&#8230; i.e. a fine for breaking an NFL rule.</p>
<p>If this was Jerry Jones and Chan Gailey&#8230; or more to the point, Bob Kraft and Pete Carroll, then I may concede your point.  But Belicheck runs the Patriot business and is held responsible for the results.  No way of knowing for sure, I suppose - but I would Pounder that it comes out of his pocket, if there were any way of ascertaining that for certain (i.e. ensuring that Kraft doesn&#8217;t &#8220;take care of it&#8221; off the radar, down the road, as you surmise).
</p>
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		<title>by: Gonzo</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/goodell-penalizes-belicheck-pats/#comment-705</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2007 15:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/goodell-penalizes-belicheck-pats/#comment-705</guid>
					<description>HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

YOu think that Belicheck is actually going to pay his own fine?  You really don't believe Kraft will pay if for him?

HAHAHAHA!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HAHAHAHAHA!!!!</p>
<p>YOu think that Belicheck is actually going to pay his own fine?  You really don&#8217;t believe Kraft will pay if for him?</p>
<p>HAHAHAHA!!!!
</p>
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		<title>by: Cliffy</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/goodell-penalizes-belicheck-pats/#comment-704</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/goodell-penalizes-belicheck-pats/#comment-704</guid>
					<description>Well, I will give you points for originality.  Your proposed penalties are the first suggestions like that which I've seen.  I understand your reasoning for proposing such a penalty, but I'm not sure I agree with it.  Seems overly harsh, perhaps not ensuring four losses - given that they're playing the Bills and Browns during that time - but certainly handicapping them a tremendous amount.  Again, I understand that's your point.  Hmmm... interesting.

As to the actual penalty, you're half right.  It's definitely a deterrent for anyone else to try the same thing, or perhaps in a more general sense, to break any NFL rule (especially if the league office sends out a memo reminding teams of a particular rule within the past year).  Any team would have to be beyond stupid to risk that fine and that pick on such rule-breaking at any point in the near future (though memories can be short, so don't be surprised if something surfaces some years down the road).

The other thing is that it doesn't specifically penalize the Pats to the same extent that the Jets, et al, may have been affected - but it *does* clearly penalize the Pats, a lot.  Losing a first-round draft choice, even one at the end of the first round, is a big deal.  As I said, suspending Belicheck would've been a complete waste of time (and I'm not sure how lost wages due to suspension would factor into the separate fine, wrt the $500k monetary limit on penalties i.e. the fine may have been reduced by the amount of his four-game salary, in the case of a four-game suspension, for example).  But taking a first-round draft choice (in addition to a half-million dollars) definitely makes him feel some pain... as Goodell notes, now *and* in the future.

People are pooh-poohing the fine amount, in light of Belicheck's reported $4mil/year salary.  Horse puckey.  Even to rich people, a half-million dollars is a lot of money.  As Dean Martin would have reminded us, "I don't think you understand the actual *amount* we're talking about here."  Every time I hear someone say that the fine is no big deal given his salary, then (a) my head feels like its going to explode, and (b) I hear Ned Beatty calmly repeating that line over and over again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I will give you points for originality.  Your proposed penalties are the first suggestions like that which I&#8217;ve seen.  I understand your reasoning for proposing such a penalty, but I&#8217;m not sure I agree with it.  Seems overly harsh, perhaps not ensuring four losses - given that they&#8217;re playing the Bills and Browns during that time - but certainly handicapping them a tremendous amount.  Again, I understand that&#8217;s your point.  Hmmm&#8230; interesting.</p>
<p>As to the actual penalty, you&#8217;re half right.  It&#8217;s definitely a deterrent for anyone else to try the same thing, or perhaps in a more general sense, to break any NFL rule (especially if the league office sends out a memo reminding teams of a particular rule within the past year).  Any team would have to be beyond stupid to risk that fine and that pick on such rule-breaking at any point in the near future (though memories can be short, so don&#8217;t be surprised if something surfaces some years down the road).</p>
<p>The other thing is that it doesn&#8217;t specifically penalize the Pats to the same extent that the Jets, et al, may have been affected - but it *does* clearly penalize the Pats, a lot.  Losing a first-round draft choice, even one at the end of the first round, is a big deal.  As I said, suspending Belicheck would&#8217;ve been a complete waste of time (and I&#8217;m not sure how lost wages due to suspension would factor into the separate fine, wrt the $500k monetary limit on penalties i.e. the fine may have been reduced by the amount of his four-game salary, in the case of a four-game suspension, for example).  But taking a first-round draft choice (in addition to a half-million dollars) definitely makes him feel some pain&#8230; as Goodell notes, now *and* in the future.</p>
<p>People are pooh-poohing the fine amount, in light of Belicheck&#8217;s reported $4mil/year salary.  Horse puckey.  Even to rich people, a half-million dollars is a lot of money.  As Dean Martin would have reminded us, &#8220;I don&#8217;t think you understand the actual *amount* we&#8217;re talking about here.&#8221;  Every time I hear someone say that the fine is no big deal given his salary, then (a) my head feels like its going to explode, and (b) I hear Ned Beatty calmly repeating that line over and over again.
</p>
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		<title>by: shtiny</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/goodell-penalizes-belicheck-pats/#comment-703</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/goodell-penalizes-belicheck-pats/#comment-703</guid>
					<description>The issue is that the punishment doesn't fit the crime.  What does losing a draft choice have to do with stealing signs?  The purpose of a punishment is twofold:  1) it should be a deterrant for other people to commit the crime and 2) it should penalize the offending party at least to the same extent that the victim was affected.  Maybe losing a draft pick and paying a fine satisfy's the first criteria, but I am not sure how it relates to #2.

If I were the commissioner, I would have penalized the Patriots in the following way:
1.  They would not be able to watch the coaches tapes that are provided to each team for the next 4 weeks

2.  During the Patriots next 4 games, they would not be permitted to utilize any technology.  For instance, the audio in Brady's helmet would be turned off for the entire game.  Belichek or said-coordinator would not be able to communicate with the booth above.  The fax machine that has the overhead pictures...gone, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue is that the punishment doesn&#8217;t fit the crime.  What does losing a draft choice have to do with stealing signs?  The purpose of a punishment is twofold:  1) it should be a deterrant for other people to commit the crime and 2) it should penalize the offending party at least to the same extent that the victim was affected.  Maybe losing a draft pick and paying a fine satisfy&#8217;s the first criteria, but I am not sure how it relates to #2.</p>
<p>If I were the commissioner, I would have penalized the Patriots in the following way:<br />
1.  They would not be able to watch the coaches tapes that are provided to each team for the next 4 weeks</p>
<p>2.  During the Patriots next 4 games, they would not be permitted to utilize any technology.  For instance, the audio in Brady&#8217;s helmet would be turned off for the entire game.  Belichek or said-coordinator would not be able to communicate with the booth above.  The fax machine that has the overhead pictures&#8230;gone, etc.
</p>
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