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	<title>Comments on: The New Joba Rules</title>
	<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/the-new-joba-rules/</link>
	<description>People don't think it be like it is, but it do.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 09:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Cliffy</title>
		<link>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/the-new-joba-rules/#comment-1133</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oscargamblesociety.com/the-new-joba-rules/#comment-1133</guid>
					<description>I dunno... but that's what the Sox did with re:  Papelbon, Jonathon.

Rivera is a one-trick pony:  He throws a cutter.  The thing is... he does it *so* well that even though everyone knows its coming, the hitters (usually) *still* can't get good wood on it.  The fact that he's been so successful for so long with *one* pitch... just amazing.  But the point is that one-pitch pitchers generally make better relievers than starters, in that the second or third time through an order, ML hitters will adjust to one great pitch.  However, seeing it once a game - every so often - unable to adjust in that one at-bat.  To wit:  Half of Rivera's career blown saves are to one team... the Red Sox.  Now, its due in part to the fact that the second-highest ML payroll is able to employ some good hitters as a rule of thumb.  But the bigger reason is familiarity.  The Red Sox and Yankees annually play (a) 18-19 times, (b) usually close games, so (c) the Sox see Rivera a lot from year to year.  Add to hit that they'll tend to have some good hitters i.e. guys that can either (i) lay off the cutter off the plate and/or (ii) get good wood on the cutter over the plate... and the Sox have traditionally had the "most" success against Rivera.  If Rivera were a starter, enough ML hitters would figure him out during individual games that he'd be as effective a starting pitcher as Mariano Duncan (and yes, I realize Duncan was a middle infielder... that's my point).  Long story short, Rivera as a closer makes perfect sense... though I still can't figure out how he did it so well for so long.

In Joba, you seem to have a fella with a couple of very good pitches i.e. it would seem an utter waste of an asset to minimize his innings by keeping him in the bullpen long-term (or even short-term, quite frankly).

Papelbon is somewhere in the middle.  Papelbon has a terrific fastball - and that's been his out pitch the past couple of years as closer.  Now, history is littered with "great fastball" pitchers - both reliever and especially starter - that flame out quickly.  Papelbon does have some other pitches - certainly more developed than Rivera, but I don't think as developed as Joba.  Indeed Papelbon worked on a split-finger for last season, and I understand he's "bringing back" his slider in preparing for this season ("bringing back" in that it was part of arsenal as starter, but he just didn't use it or practice it since going to the bullpen).

Very good to great starters need several pitches to be succesful over the long term.  Very good to great closers?  Not so much.  This explains why Rivera was (a) put in the bullpen and (b) kept there.  Short of keeping his innings down, I don't understand why Joba is in the pen.  And with Papelbon... perfectly honest, I'd rather he was a starter - cuz I think he could develop a multi-pitch arsenal to be successful long-term and I'd rather he threw 225 innings than 75 innings each year.  Then the Sox can get a new closer every one to two years (far easier to do than getting a new top-of-the-rotation starter every one to two years)... but what do I know?

Theo and Tito have won two WS in the past four years making many moves I wouldn't personally make... so I guess I'll trust 'em.

As for the Yankees and Joba, clearly I hope they're making a mistake.... but I also happen to believe they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno&#8230; but that&#8217;s what the Sox did with re:  Papelbon, Jonathon.</p>
<p>Rivera is a one-trick pony:  He throws a cutter.  The thing is&#8230; he does it *so* well that even though everyone knows its coming, the hitters (usually) *still* can&#8217;t get good wood on it.  The fact that he&#8217;s been so successful for so long with *one* pitch&#8230; just amazing.  But the point is that one-pitch pitchers generally make better relievers than starters, in that the second or third time through an order, ML hitters will adjust to one great pitch.  However, seeing it once a game - every so often - unable to adjust in that one at-bat.  To wit:  Half of Rivera&#8217;s career blown saves are to one team&#8230; the Red Sox.  Now, its due in part to the fact that the second-highest ML payroll is able to employ some good hitters as a rule of thumb.  But the bigger reason is familiarity.  The Red Sox and Yankees annually play (a) 18-19 times, (b) usually close games, so (c) the Sox see Rivera a lot from year to year.  Add to hit that they&#8217;ll tend to have some good hitters i.e. guys that can either (i) lay off the cutter off the plate and/or (ii) get good wood on the cutter over the plate&#8230; and the Sox have traditionally had the &#8220;most&#8221; success against Rivera.  If Rivera were a starter, enough ML hitters would figure him out during individual games that he&#8217;d be as effective a starting pitcher as Mariano Duncan (and yes, I realize Duncan was a middle infielder&#8230; that&#8217;s my point).  Long story short, Rivera as a closer makes perfect sense&#8230; though I still can&#8217;t figure out how he did it so well for so long.</p>
<p>In Joba, you seem to have a fella with a couple of very good pitches i.e. it would seem an utter waste of an asset to minimize his innings by keeping him in the bullpen long-term (or even short-term, quite frankly).</p>
<p>Papelbon is somewhere in the middle.  Papelbon has a terrific fastball - and that&#8217;s been his out pitch the past couple of years as closer.  Now, history is littered with &#8220;great fastball&#8221; pitchers - both reliever and especially starter - that flame out quickly.  Papelbon does have some other pitches - certainly more developed than Rivera, but I don&#8217;t think as developed as Joba.  Indeed Papelbon worked on a split-finger for last season, and I understand he&#8217;s &#8220;bringing back&#8221; his slider in preparing for this season (&#8221;bringing back&#8221; in that it was part of arsenal as starter, but he just didn&#8217;t use it or practice it since going to the bullpen).</p>
<p>Very good to great starters need several pitches to be succesful over the long term.  Very good to great closers?  Not so much.  This explains why Rivera was (a) put in the bullpen and (b) kept there.  Short of keeping his innings down, I don&#8217;t understand why Joba is in the pen.  And with Papelbon&#8230; perfectly honest, I&#8217;d rather he was a starter - cuz I think he could develop a multi-pitch arsenal to be successful long-term and I&#8217;d rather he threw 225 innings than 75 innings each year.  Then the Sox can get a new closer every one to two years (far easier to do than getting a new top-of-the-rotation starter every one to two years)&#8230; but what do I know?</p>
<p>Theo and Tito have won two WS in the past four years making many moves I wouldn&#8217;t personally make&#8230; so I guess I&#8217;ll trust &#8216;em.</p>
<p>As for the Yankees and Joba, clearly I hope they&#8217;re making a mistake&#8230;. but I also happen to believe they are.
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